Leadspeak episode 5 - Empathetic marketing and customer persona

Episode 05: Empathetic Marketing & Customer Persona

To show empathy is to put oneself in somebody else's position. Empathetic marketing is a prospect problem focus over everything else and in turn drives segmentation, focused conversation, and diagnostic determination. In order to excel at empathetic marketing, we need to truly recognise who our customer is.

In this episode you'll learn about what empathetic marketing is, how it can help your business close more sales, and the process we use to find who it is our customer really is and what we need to say to them.

We've included a transcript below in case you can't listen at this moment in time.

In this episode, you'll learn:

  • The meaning of empathetic marketing and how this change in mindset can improve the conversations you have with your market
  • Why empathetic marketing works from a content perspective and a strategic perspective
  • A look at the classic sales question... "sell me this pen"
  • The process we use to determine who our customer is and what we need to know about them

Links and resources mentioned in this episode:

Thanks For Listening!

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Be sure to join us in episode 5 where we will be discussing GDPR, some of the myths, and why we're pro the new regulations.

Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave a note in the comment section below.


Episode 5 - Empathetic Marketing.

[00:00:01] Welcome to the Leadspeak podcast with me Alex Thackray.

[00:00:17] Welcome to episode 5 of Leadspeak. The podcast where we'll be talking about automated sales systems that you can build into your own businesses.

[00:00:21] Who am I? I am Alex Thackray. Founder of Leadfreak, where we build automated sale systems for many different business types and we want to pass on some of the experience and knowledge that we have, to you.

[00:00:39] So thank you for joining me on Leadspeak for number episode five with me, and Emma Thackray, Editorial Director at Leadfreak. And today we're going to be talking about empathetic marketing and why it is key to automated sales. It's a really interesting one. We're going to have insights from my side which is strategy and data and we're also going to be gathering some information from Emma around how imparting it how important it is to content marketing and driving that organic traffic to your business. So before we begin there's a hello from me hello and a hello from Emma, Hello! And let's go!

[00:01:23] So as per the lead speak format what we do is we take the questions that we've been asked from our clients and from prospects and generally people that we speak to on a day to day basis and we look to create resources and content surrounding that point, so that people can find out for themselves. Empathetic marketing is something that we're asked about quite a lot because really is fundamental to some of the sales strategies that we're putting in place for our clients. Empathetic marketing is really a fancy a fancy word really for what the subject is. I'm going to break that down in this episode of LeadSpeak so you know exactly what it is and you can then form the strategy in your mind.

[00:02:04] I'm going to ask the first question of Emma rather than last time which was Emma asking me. So Emma, tell me what is empathetic marketing? Other than being really hard to see on a podcast. Having a lot of trouble with that today. I'm going to mess up now. Let's take an image out of you. Well to me an empathetic marketing it's is really the switching from trying to use marketing to solve your own problems to using it to solve your customers problems. Because what that does is it helps to build a lot more trust and loyalty to your brand. So we will know what our own problems are in terms of marketing. Problem is that we've got a product or a service that we want to sell. Basically, we are trying to use marketing in order to sell their product. What empathetic marketing does is it flips that around and instead of us trying to solve our own problems through marketing we're trying to solve our customer's problems. So we need to ask ourselves what are those customer problems and how do we solve them through our marketing basically. So if you look on a scale of how people talk about or try and sell their product and service. At one end of the scale you've got talking about features, which is really my product does this, my product does that, my product is better than X because it does this. Yeah. And then you have in the middle you have the benefits which is talking about the benefits your customer of what your product is which is a lot better than just talking about your own features.

[00:03:44] So you're talking about how that impacts your customer so they can kind of visualize the impact on their lives. I guess for me then empathetic is the next step on that scale or the other side of the scale which is you don't even talk products. It's just purely problem talk, problem focus for your client. Yeah, you are just providing them with the solution to their problem really without necessarily, I mean features no one cares about, you can say what your product does all day long but nobody's going to buy a product because of what it is. Sounds silly but nobody does. Benefits are a bit better but what you really want to do is show people how you are going to solve their problem and if you're not talking about specifically about selling your product in that the more the better really because people can't be sold to nowadays not in a traditional sense you can whacked and advert on buy my product it's great because people have seen it a million times and it does'nt work it just goes completely over peoples heads now. So, I think that's as a consequence of the being so many ads before it was just in year, decades ago it was just one channel that you would see advertisements or maybe two, print going to TV and radio. But all we see nowadays with the rise of digital and the rise of screens really. We're all faced with an insurmountable a mount of advertisements at any one point in time, all claiming to be the thing that we need to buy next. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:22] I mean I've been on Facebook today and have probably seen about a hundred adverts and I could probably tell you two of those that I can actually remember. The vast majority of them use scroll on scroll on by basically. Yes and that's why we really need. I think it's the thing nowadays it's empathetic marketing is something that you really need to think about. I think in order to separate yourself as a / put yourself above the parapet kind of. Exactly, yeah. because everybody thinks that their business is unique and special and the only one of its kind. But the reality is your business is probably quite similar to a lot of other businesses out there. Your product is probably quite similar to a lot of other products out there so you really need to separate yourself with your marketing, and you need to build that sense of trust and loyalty and just the relationship with your customer basically because that's what's going to eventually make them loyal to you make them buy from you make them keep coming back to you.

I've just thought of a great example of this. What's that? See you've got the classic sales question haven't you? "Sell me this pen." Yeah. Actually, you could sell, try and sell that pen across that scale. Again features you know it's never gonna run out or etc. Well actually you're not fighting against other pens, you're fighting against something that writes something. And not even that you can take the problem of the client or the potential customer, and be completely widespread so to sell that pen, you don't want the problem that the person has in order to need that pen? With might not necessarily a pen is it's a there's an end point that he's trying to achieve whether it's to make a note, so if it's to make a note , it can be something on your phone, it can be a white board, it can be a voice dictator. You know?

And thinking about that actually put it into that perspective, you can see there that actually if you can connect on that problem level then and I see this is what gets me with advertisements. See, the only time I'll ever respond to an ad is when it clicks on something that I'm already thinking about. And I know that's where the re targeting element comes in, but really if I've got a problem and I'm trying to find a solution to that problem and something pops up with: This is the solution to your problem. Then I'm going to read it. Yes absolutely. Yep definitely rather than out of the blue, Here's my product, this is why you need it kind of thing. 'Cause all the time you're taking that stance on it, you're asking your customers to solve your problem by buying your product, and nobody's going to do that for you like nobody is going to do you a favor by buying your product unless you've showed to them that that's what they want to do or they need to do in order to solve their problem first, I think. And it all sounds I think my problem with empathetic marketing is it sounds a bit sinister in that empathy, the whole point of empathy is that it's genuine right? Like you don't you don't fake empathy in order to get people to like you in life. So you don't fake empathy in marketing in order to get someone to buy your product.

[00:08:41] And it's really, it's really important to make that distinction because what a lot of people say is well isn't it really obvious when that's what you're doing with empathetic marketing because obviously, we've all got products that we want to sell or services that we want to sell and obviously that is the baseline point of marketing. Okay. As much as we talk about empathetic marketing we want to solve our customers problems but we want to solve them because we want to sell our products and that's always going to be there but I think you've also got to be genuine with your empathy. So you can ask what can I do empathetically. How can I market my product empathetically to sell my product You've got to almost completely take your product out of it and just ask purely how you can solve your customers problems and actually want to help them. So I think you have actually got to be genuine. You can't come at it from a oh okay empathetic marketing is a fancy new marketing thing that I can use in order to sell my product you have to actually genuinely want to build that relationship with your customers. Because it's a two way street. You know you've got to look after them if you want to buy a product or to keep coming back to use your service or whatever it is that you want them to do. So it does have to be something that is genuine 'cause it is very obvious, you know it's very obvious when somebody is faking being your friend because they want something from you, it is quite obvious when a - it is very obvious as well when a business is doing the same slimy thing of you know, some do it much better than others I think

[00:10:22] But it would be interesting we should have a look at some examples actually. It's very obvious when businesses are being fake about it maybe offering a little snippet of value but not actually doing anything particularly worthwhile except just trying to get their products out the door. Here, We've talked a little bit there on messaging and on how we can apply empathetic marketing at that messaging level and the advertisement level but again you can take it right back to the fundamentals of business and that we create products and we create services to solve problems to deliver value. Yeah. If they don't deliver value they're not going to sell. You can put as many advertisements out as you want in the world, if the product has no value it won't sell. Yeah, absolutely. And the solving someone's problem is the value. That's what takes your customer from a to b b b and the end result the happy customer. Now that you've fixed whatever problem they have before. So yeah, it's almost like we've lost track, lost sight of why we've started these business in the first place. Exactly. In our marketing message. Yeah absolutely. Yeah that's very true. I think we've covered quite a lot ground already, and that was empathetic marketing. But I guess next we need to start asking kind of like why why we should use it. We've covered a bit of that already and then start to talk about how how we can actually use it in practice and apply it to the like marketing strategy of other businesses. Yeah absolutely.

[00:12:02] And then the next question for me is I think we've touched on it a little bit but why is it so important? Well coming from my perspective it's most important in my view because it really forms the whole basis of your content marketing strategy, in the way that your the whole deal with an empathetic marketing. I can't say it. Is that you are solving your customer's problems or providing them with answers to their questions, helping them out a bit basically as much as possible in order to show your value as a business, and really be known as a credible expert. Yes absolutely yeah is. Yeah. It's a two way street you want to help them out, and as you're doing that you show them that you are you are the expert, you know what you're talking about. You have all the answers to their questions, so that they can trust you with whatever it is. So that's really for me is the most important thing about empathetic marketing is that you have to have that. The real can of the forefront of your content marketing so when you're planning your editorial calendars, when you're planning your blog posts, the content of your blog post really wants to be the answers to your customers questions, all the solutions to their problems basically .If you're doing a podcast, like we're doing right now you want to be answering questions, you want to be providing solutions. Anything that you're doing, any lead magnets or anything that you're creating, any free downloads, they have to actually have value, and for them to have value they need to be helping your customers out. They need to be solving their problems because if it doesn't do that then people don't care because if it doesn't do that then the only purpose of them is to help you move them along your funnel and get them to buy your product and people aren't going to do that just to help you out.

[00:14:02] On my side, and this is for me really where is a core element of an ultimate sale system is if you can talk to about a prospect's problem at that early stage of a buyer journey, home page, then what it allows you to do is to segment at that earliest possible stage. So you segment based on the different problems that your product or service can solve.

Let's take Leadfreak, so we look at problems which is revenue and profit growth, educating prospects, conversion rates, deterring sales pipelines and return of investment of marketing spent. So businesses that we target tend to have those problems. Yeah. Now you're going to the homepage, you're instantly gonna be asked that question: What's your challenge? You tell us. And we segment then on those elements, on those problems. So every page after that once you have selected what your problem is, it's talking to you about that problem. Yeah. We completely stop the conversation on anything else unless you're anywhere else on that site and we talk to you about that problem. Yeah I'm in on that exact thing. Yeah yeah. And that was something we really focused on when we last kind of redesigned the website wasn't it? Was we kind of realized that if we weren't providing solutions then we weren't giving solutions. And segmenting enough on that Web site you know we were yeah okay maybe telling people what we did or saying why it was great but we weren't saying how we can solve people's problems, I think. And that's something that people need to look at on their own website. Really is it needs to be all solution, doesn't it? You need to think about their before and after effect as well. In terms of before, people have got a problem, and but then you want to really show them the after. Because that's the solution really you want to show people how- The after state. Yeah exactly.

[00:16:05] On a different levels, emotional and physical, monetary levels. Yeah. Try and tap into all those different elements of what people are thinking about and their problems and really showing what your solution provides in that case.

Yeah absolutely.

Taking it one step further for the automated sale system where we utilise things like obviously landing pages, and retargeting systems, and e-mail sequences, and really all these different touch points that we want to approach our prospects with. Being able to communicate on other different channels. Once they've identified what that problem is, we can create really compelling copy within our advertisements, within our e-mails because we're still just focused on that one problem. And on the experience, we know that if they have one problem, this is the next step in solving that problem. In terms of lifetime value we can expand that lifetime value once they become a customer because we can say they started off with this problem, generally people if they have this problem, initially they're going to have this next problem. So we can address that next problem now before it's really an issue and ultimately grow that lifetime value. Yeah, Absolutely.

[00:17:20] It's really interesting isn't it? 'Cause it's so two-fold in the sense of obviously - it's so important to me from the more creative content writing side and then on kind of your side of the sea, you're doing them all kind of creating the funnels, that's slightly more technical side of the business but it's equally important for both sides really isn't it? And it's not kind of a- It expands the whole of your marketing strategy doesn't it? Rather than just kind of one what else they really want to be you want to to be thinking about that. In everything you do whether it's a blog post, or whether it's an email sequence to the content of those e-mails as well, you want to make sure that you're not you're not talking about yourself in e-mails. You want to make sure that your emails are straight in talking about your customer, how you're solving your customers problems. You got to think about it and yeah everything that you do basically.

[00:18:14] Well if we go back to Episode 2 of LeadSpeak, we've talked about the framework that we use when we are looking at building the sales for an ultimate sale system for one of our clients. You know we have those three roles. One is looking at symptoms and consequences in establishing yourself as a credible expert. Now, even on a on a high level empathetic marketing it's just fundamental at that base level.Yeah. One in establishing what symptoms are what you need to know your problem, you need to know your prospect's problem before we even talk about the symptoms. So you can address, does your prospects even know they have this problem? Mm hmm. And how can you help show them that they do have the problem. Yeah. Consequences, you need, again you need to be talking about their problem because ultimately you need to be able to them, to put a value to their business of the cost of that problem on your prospect's business. So you always need to have that problem from their mind. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:19:19] We've covered quite a lot straight away in terms of empathetic marketing, but I think in that first half there's some really really useful insight into that whole problem focused strategy. Hopefully you guys can take something away from that. In this next part of the podcast episode, what we're going to look at is you know, what do you need to begin your empathetic marketing journey? So I will put that to Emma.

[00:19:46] You have a very careful phrasing on "empathetic" there. Uhm sorry. Okay. What do you need to start your empathetic marketing journey? Number one thing is you need to know your customers, which sounds silly but you need to really know them in depth in order to solve their problems. I don't know if you gave that sentence enough seriousness in it's delivery.Sorry. But you need to know, You need to know your customers. And for me this is all about customer persona building. We don't work with any clients without doing a customer persona workshop. As a matter of a rule- the words right out of my mouth.

I was about to start talking about the customer persona, oh go ahead- no, no it's fine you talk about it. So the customer persona is fundamental. Yeah. And it's okay. Well it's not okay but you know, people will have an idea of who their customer is. And that might just be a generic term of teachers or mechanics or B2B yet that's not specific enough.No. Because this is the way that I've put it recently is- you might have a rough idea of who you want to target, but in that marketing and all that communication that you're looking to have with that person, it's like me looking just to the left of you and saying something it'd be partially relevant. So your kinda listening in. But ultimately when I finished talking you can say - yeah that was quite interesting but you know it's not completely it's not completely relevant. So I can dismiss it. If I'm engaging with you and talking to you specifically. Then you're captured in that conversation, and you know that I'm speaking to you directly. Now to do that en masse, you need to know specifically who that customer is, don't you? You got to look them right in the eye. Yeah, basically, yeah. Absolutely. You really need to have a specific person, and I guess we'll explain what we mean by specific person but an actual person in mind that you're talking to in your marketing, in order to make sure that you really are digging deep into solving those customer problems and to creating that relationship with them as well. So what kind of thing is involved in creating your customer persona then? So when we talk about talking to a specific person how do we get to that point?

[00:22:35] So we use a set process of developing that customer persona. That characterisation of your perfect client, you know it's not just about saying this person is my ideal client, you need to look inside your own business and see profitability wise; are business longevity wise, is that the client I want to be tagged in? It might be the client that you are working with now. But is that really the client you want to be working in the future? Yeah. It's a great way to just change subtlety who it is that you're targeting, to bring in more profits and more revenue to your business. Because you identify and target one specific client that you know is good for your business and you can deliver lots of value to them. But the external process of actually forming that persona, we have about I think it's five different sections that we look at. And actually we have a customer persona worksheet on the Leadfreak website, I'll tag a link into it in the notes section - which is one of them are fundamental - because you hear customer persona is being talked about quite a lot. Some of the notes that I've seen from other people being quite brief - this work sheet is really fundamental, it's a real comprehensive, Yeah, it goes deep, doesn't it? You'll know who your customers are, once you do that. And it really plays into that that whole empathy thing as well with providing solutions because you can talk about emotion as well?

Like you know people buy for emotional reasons a lot more than they will for practical reasons and you can you can dig into that when you're creating your customer persona, because you'll start to really think about what your pressure points and what your stresses are for your customers. You know what worries them, what goals do they have for the future.You know we're talking kind of big picture a lot of time but you want to be acknowledging all those things about your customers because that's really how you need to understand those things before you can show them how you can get them to achieving those goals or to relieving those stresses, to giving them a good night's sleep because they're no longer worrying about that thing that they were worrying about. So that's a whole load of the reason why you really need to do those customer personas because otherwise you've just got like a 2D - you know figure that you are trying to sell things - you really want an actual kind of 3D whole kind of person. So yes they're they're fictional in a way,and that you're rarely you know you're thinking about your ideal customer you know they're kind of semi fictional aren't they? Because you base them on customers that you already have or actual people that you might be targeting in future. But your rounding them into your into your ideal customer. So they're fictional but they're real in the sense that they are the exact type of person you want to be targeting and therefore the exact type of person who you want to be helping in order to build that relationship with them.

[00:25:57] So if you look at the different sections and within that customer persona that we're using our process is section one, you've got you know that the personification of that persona. So gender, age,- and name. Like why do we need to give him a name? It seems kind of silly doesn't it? Like a school creative writing exercise,but it's a lot easier to develop a relationship with somebody if you know their name. I mean obviously you're not going to call all of your customers that that name but it's more just that any time you are again coming from a content marketing perspective any time you're writing a blog post or creating a video or whatever you want to be in your mind directing it towards whomever.

[00:26:42] So Leadfreak's main customer persona is Steve. Good old Steve. And after every piece of copy and every piece of content that we create, the question is asked; Would Steve want to read this? or consume it if it's a video. Would Steve rate this? Would it deliver value to Steve? Is it going to help Steve. So were always asking - is Steve going to take value from what we're doing. Yeah. So it really gives us that focus point.

[00:27:06] Yeah, it does it. Yeah it gives you focus and it almost kind of saves you effort as much as it's as you know efforts to your customer persona, effort to think about you know change your marketing strategy to bring this kind of empathy element in. If you do that then it stops you wasting time in future by creating content that isn't valuable to your ideal customer. Doesn't resonate. Yeah, absolutely. So it's well worth doing I think.

[00:27:33] So yeah Section 1 is is everything like gender, age, number of children, are they married? Education levels, well can they be found online? What platforms do they use? What books do they read? What conferences do they attend? You can go on and on. But it's real real life stuff. Then you have

Section 2 - which is looking at external pressures. Which is actually what pressure is being put on your persona by the forces around them. And one of the great ways that we do is we actually look at applying Porter's by forces onto that persona. So Porter's by forces states these are all the external forces on a business at anyone point in time. If we put Steve bang in the middle of that and make him the subject of the Porter's five forces review, we can say- okay, from top down what pressures are being applied on Steve? From bottom up in terms of if he has employees or a team underneath him, what was the pressure from them? Threat, and substitutes, internal rivalries,and market competitiveness. What factors - what pressures are being applied by all those factors on Steve.

Section 3, you're looking at internal pressure so it's almost like aspirational pressures that Steve's putting on himself. Where does he want to be in his career? And what lifestyle does he want? What lifestyle does he want to give his kids? What does he want to do education wise? What car does he want to drive, you know - all these different internal pressures that he puts on himself.

[00:29:05] And stuff that does might not seem a hundred percent relevant. You know if you're perhaps you know like us if we're you know trying to sell someone a sales funnel like why do we care what - what car they want to drive or what age they want to retire at, but at the same time knowing all of these things, it tells us where our customer wants to be. And then we can we can direct our marketing by you know showing them how we can get them to that point - and helping them get to that point as well like genuinely helping them to get to that point, if we know what they want then we know how we can help them and actually help them as well because you know rather than just serving ourselves, you know with these you're not going to be a successful business if you're not actually solving your customers problems.

[00:29:54] And if for me from my experience and from speaking to lots of people you know? Emotion trumps logic. The majority of the time. In those internal pressures, these emotion - that's what's going to be driving people to make certain decisions. Yeah, definitely. In a-- if we move on to Section 4, which is where we look at in a way as you're persona's role in the purchasing process? And is there anyone else that has an influence within that process that you need to address? Whether that's creating materials for your persona to deliver to - say the financial directive that financial director has to sign off on that purchase.

And then finally moving into the value that you deliver. So this is really where you take all the work that you've just done in addressing all those or identifying who your persona is and all their pressures, and saying actually, well - how does my product now link or align itself to those pressures. And this is really what drives the messaging because you can say if Steve has an internal pressure of wanting more time, but there's an external pressure of getting all the work done because the business wants to grow - then if you can solve that problem, and you can create the messaging around solving that problem for Steve - then Steve's really gonna connect through that on an on an emotional and a logical level.

[00:31:22] Absolutely and at no point during that-you necessary saying here's my product isn't it great. Absolutely. Which people don't like you know? When you do that, that's when people are going like "oh you're just trying to sell me something no. If you're kind of almost cutting that part out and just jumping straight to how you're going to get them to that point of happiness really is where it all comes down to, isn't it? Like contentment in their life then then that's what you need to do basically. That's the whole the whole can ethos around their empathetic marketing really. Isn't it?

[00:31:53] So within that final stage of the personas - we have two different elements within there; we have pain killers. Which is where any negative pressure is placed onto our persona. How do we resolve those? And then level ups. So how do we boost our persona to a position he wants to be in. So it's not necessarily a negative pain reliever or a pain killer. It's actually looking at from where we are now - how can we make Steve the best Steve he can be. Or the best that Steve wants to be. Yeah absolutely.

[00:32:27] And like I say we don't work with clients without doing a customer persona workshop because you're just shooting in the dark if you don't know bang on exactly kind of who your who your customers so it's you know well there is a reasonably long workshop I don't think anybody has ever walked out of it thinking there wasn't worthwhile even if you walk into it thinking: "ah I already know my customer, I don't really need to do this." I think there's there is still so much value to be had from really kind of nailing down exactly - exactly who your customer is.

[00:32:58] Even if you've been through it all before after- and a certain amount of time has passed? So it's good to refresh. But more often than not the workshops are transformational in people's thinking. And they come out of it motivated and really focused on who they can help in - and what they need to be able to do to to tell that person they can help. Yeah absolutely. And I think the next part of the podcast is we were talking a lot about empathetic marketing but now let's talk about some good examples that we've seen or some of the results that we've seen from empathetic marketing. T he easiest one to talk to is Leadfreak. Oh yes, when we know inside out. Obviously what we're doing and everything within Leadfreak is running off empathetic marketing. Even when you go to book a call with us, we're asking you what your problems are. So that when we speak to you, we're already talking far more than just the pleasantries. It's getting straight into it of- oh so this is your challenge, you know? This is what we know how we can help you within that challenge. Have you thought about this, have you thought about that? And really looking to solve those problems for our personas straight off the bus. Yes absolutely yes. And the same with material so again, customer persona workshop or the work sheet, is one element of providing materials to help people solve problems. We obviously have our conversion rate calculator which is for people who have an issue with curve conversion rates and looking to increase the effectiveness of the pipelines? You know our whole approach to the market is problem first.

[00:34:33] Yes it is absolutely. And that goes for all of the content marketing as well from Social Media Marketing where you know even if it's not our own content, we're sharing content from other sources that we think that our customers will find useful. And every blog post we write every podcast we record. We're not talking about - we're not ever directly talking about our own products. You know what is the most boring podcast in the world is probably just like a sales pitch. Where it's like half an hour long saying Leadfreak do this and this and it's great and you need it. Sounds awful.Yeah, absolutely. So that's why you know in these podcasts and in the blog posts that we write as well - we're not talking about that, we're trying to actually help people and actually answer questions that people have. And you know specifically with this empathetic marketing maybe show them a different way that maybe they've not considered before, you know? If they're not you know in the kind of marketing realm if you like maybe directionally they wouldn't necessarily have previously thought of. And that's giving value and showing value much more so than if you're just talking at somebody about how great you are.

[00:35:49] Yeah, absolutely. And looking outside of Leadfreak, one of our clients who we work a lot with - Venue View Yes. Yeah we did quite a lot for them. Keith won't mind me talking about Venue View on the podcast. Venue View a 360 virtual tool provider - growing really really quick and really it's because we've been working with them for quite a while now all around talking to the specific persona on their problems. So I spent a good few hours with the team at Venue View in identifying who exactly was that they wanted to target and they've just committed to it a hundred percent. It's amazing. Yeah, they have actually. Haven't they? They get it.

So you look on their website and they found the key problem for each of their main industries that they service and that is what they talked about. Yeah. And you can see in their results - in all the copy that has been created by Venue View in the free resources that Venue View give to their market? You know it's all problem first, I mean if you look at the growth of the company as well.. you've got to say that a lot of that is because of how they're talking to their target market. Yeah absolutely yeah yeah.

And it separates you from the rest of the market and from the rest of the industry as well. Doesn't it?. And if you do that and certainly with or with Venue View I mean there's a few around Virtual Tour 360 towards what they do and the fact that they seem to be differentiating themselves very well already is a is a good sign and it just shows that you know that it's worth taking this approach ain't it? It's worth saying that it is a bit of a long game like you're not going to be able to you know throw out a couple of blog posts and you know a few emails or whatever about that is using this approach and - it's a strategy. Yeah, yeah. You're not going to you know answer one person's question and then they're gonna buy a product you know? It's the same as with any relationship you know friendships take a long time to grow relationships take a long time to grow. You don't see someone in a coffee shop and buy them a coffee and then expect them to marry you.

Yeah, that's a perfect example. No you can't just do you know do them one favour and then be like - oh how come you didn't buy my product? Yeah, absolutely. How come you didn't accept my offer of marriage after that that one coffee? It's this, it's the same thing really? It's still you know what we're you know we're talking about marketing we're talking about buying and selling products. Everything is still about relationships. So you still got to put that time and to build that relationship, before you can expect a commitment. This is turning into a relationship advice.

[00:38:45] If you've actually put that into context of where we are with technology nowadays, you can be forming that relationship without ever having to be part of that conversation. Because - because you can speak to your target market through the materials that you put online. Yeah. Yeah. That as long as it's directly talking to them like I mentioned earlier and it's addressing those problems that they have, then people are always going to consume it. Yeah. Absolutely.

They might not necessarily want to talk to you about that problem, they just want to try and find it out. Yeah yeah. And that's the beauty of this you know all this these these fun it was is the automation aspect of it makes it almost effortless in that sense. You want to be building those relationships obviously you're not going to be talking one on one to every single person that comes to your website with a question, but as long as you know who the people are - who are coming to your website or who you want to come to your website then you know you already know the questions that they'll ask and the problems that they have and you can solve them automatically. And that's really that's as you know the great thing about all of the different things you can do now. Yeah absolutely.

So yeah, check out VenueView.co.uk, because those guys are really really running really ahead with empathetic marketing. They are doing a great job. Like I said I will put the customer persona worksheet up in the resources section of this podcast. You can take a look, it's free download, and take it and see what you think.

And I think we've covered empathetic marketing. I think we have. Yeah. Absolutely. I guess if anybody has any questions because we kind of just rattled on a bit haven't we? Rather than actually going via the lovely structure that we did have for the podcast, so if we've missed anything and I guess if anybody has any questions about anything then they can just send and we'll try try to address it with more clarity. But other than that yeah I think that's that's all I have to say about the empathetic marketing.

[00:40:49] Okay, so next episode of LeadSpeak - Episode 6. We've got something big coming up around the corner, not Leadfreak in particular but the country, the continent as a whole, the world as a whole - BREXIT. No. No.

GDPR. Yeah. Yeah. We know a lot of people and I really probably would have done this if we'd been asked the questions that we've been asked a bit earlier. But it is obviously the hot topic. I'm sure you've probably heard a couple of podcasts or webinars or videos on what GDPR is.

But we're going to do our own LeadSpeak episode on GDPR next. Which will probably be early May. Just in time for when GDPR kicks in on the 25th of May. And what we're going to be looking at are the myths surrounding GDPR. Because there are hell of a lot of myths and speculation around what that's going to force small businesses to do and large businesses and the fines that are involved - you know people are scared but it's not helped by the speculation. Yeah. We're going to put across the reality, what you need to be doing for GDPR. And actually, an optimistic conversation on GDPR - around why we are pro GDPR? Yeah absolutely. As much as it's a pain in the butt? I'm guessing swearing is frowned upon on a podcast. But we are talking about GDPR.

You know, you know we're not going to lie and say that you know it's not going to be a bit of a hassle in terms of you know from our perspective as a business making sure that we comply but you still got to look at it as a whole in the sense that no actually it is a good thing. So it would be good for us to - to talk about that and yeah I think I'll be really interested, because I've started really reading up on it recently and there's so - you know different ends of the spectrum between you know we were listening to that one podcast where that man was like Oh I've had to take myself completely out of my business in order to in order to get my head around you know GDPR and some people though are like "meh, it doesn't really change anything."

So there is a lot of scaremongering. So it will be good to really kind of nail down. Yeah. So like I said, join us next time where we're going to go on a deep dive and GDPR and we hope to see there!

Great stuff!

See you there! And we'll see you soon!

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